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Saturday, March 18, 2017

Mailvox: in feeble defense of Keynes

I don't think Art Deco quite understands where he is.
What's the point of slamming Keynes? Keynes is notable as a progenitor of a nexus of macroeconomic models. Macroeconomics has some trouble settling on a consensus model. It's neither necessary nor proper to attack his integrity.
First, Art Deco is wrong. Second, he is WAY out of his league here. Keynes had zero integrity - he claimed to have abandoned his theory of money in between its publication and the published rebuttal by FA von Hayek in order to avoid having to answer the latter -  he was incredibly intellectually dishonest, and his General Theory was little more than rehashed Freudian nonsense dressed up in math-sounding economics.

The only reason it became popular is because it gave politicians an excuse to do what they wanted - spend money.

Labels: ,

150 Comments:

Anonymous ben March 18, 2017 2:11 AM  

I was under the impression that a feeble defense of Keynes was the only sort possible.

Blogger rtp March 18, 2017 2:16 AM  

The amazing thing is that he answered a question only a lunatic would think to ask.

No recession in history has been focused on the consumption side. It us always focused on the capital side.

Consumer prices might fall a little but they never come close to falling as much as capital prices do.

So what kind of a loony would believe that stimulating consumption - even assuming that was possible - would fix the problem?

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 2:20 AM  

Ave! Great White Indian. Morning. (Is there any honorable Native Name for you Vox?)

Ever thought, that maybe Socialism has always been about taking total control over a Land and not to bring about Paradise on Earth? What if Keynes's Stealth Socialism was just Evil by design? I read something like that and despite the reasons given to believe it were pretty weak it does give a possibility that many people simply desire power and use theory and rhetoric as a smoke screen or a diversion.

Vox, on economics, is there a way to calculate what percentage of the population should be business owners and what percentage should be workers hired?

It seems that when the economy starts to give the ghost you would be better off starting your own business, a small one of course; instead of being hired by someone and become nothing more but a riskholder.

You have got me very interested in economics and economics have got me interested in dealing with poverty through entrepeneurship, but I have no idea where to begin...

I should have done economics and administration u_u

Blogger rtp March 18, 2017 2:22 AM  

But it gets worse!

Demand is by definition a relative concept. No matter what you can only conceive of demand as being in terms of something else.

You can set demand of one good vs every other good (basically the use of money) but you *cannot* aggregate it.

Aggregating demand means how much of nothing you will sacrifice to get something.

Which is to say that it is meaningless.

Every single graph in every single macroeconomics class is abject nonsense. Aggregate demand is not a curve it is a shaded area from zero to infinity.

As any mathematician can show if you can divide by zero you can come up with all sorts of crazy conclusions.

That is what has happened with Keynesianism. He divided by zero and was able to conclude that wars, natural disasters etc were good for the economy.

Blogger Resident Moron™ March 18, 2017 2:29 AM  

There's no defense possible for a man whose contribution to economic theory is to throw up his hands and say "the leftover chimps did it!"

Anonymous VFM #6306 March 18, 2017 2:44 AM  

What's the point of quoting Art Deco? Deco is notable as a regurgitator of vaguely understood misconceptions. Misconceptions have some trouble settling on accurate truths. It is neither necessary nor proper to quote him directly.

Anonymous james@wpc March 18, 2017 3:17 AM  

Eduardo wrote:

You have got me very interested in economics and economics have got me interested in dealing with poverty through entrepeneurship, but I have no idea where to begin...


If I may jump in and offer my 2cents worth - one of the controlling factors of poverty is caused by the banking industry who create our Money Supply and determines who it is issued to. Research "Credit Creation".

One of the factors of recessions is a lack of money to fulfill, or make effective, consumer demand (sorry RTP!). Major H.C. Douglas explained the problem succinctly in his "Social Credit" theory. It is a mathematical problem and requires a deficit budget. His solution was a political (socialist) one but there are other (less socialist) ways to do it.

He advocated the deficit budget be financed by govt created money which would not attract interest and would be distributed to the people as a 'dividend' like a Tax Return. So I suggest you read up on Douglas Social Credit and also research govt created money versus private bank created money.

Having understood that, you will understand the consumer problem that Keynes sought to address (I suspect he stole Douglas' idea). Keynes solution was also deficit budgeting but was doomed from the start because unlike Douglas, Keynes advocating financing it by borrowing from private banks (his mentors) which just deferred the problem and made it exponentially larger over the decades from compounded interest.

Finally, read up on the economics equation P=MV. In my humble opinion it is the economic equivalent of Einstein's E=MC2. P=MV will explain all you need to know about inflation and how to successfully manage an economy with growth and without inflation. Equally you will understand the 'how' of booms and busts, the 'how' of the mysterious 'Business Cycle' are created.

Bon voyage, Eduardo

Blogger tublecane March 18, 2017 3:21 AM  

"Macroeconomics has some trouble settling on a consensus model"

That could have something to do with the fact that it doesn't exist. Reality is all microeconomics.

(Not that models failing to reflect reality is necessarily a problem. Cf. "climate change.")

Anonymous Luke March 18, 2017 3:23 AM  

Obviously one more gomer who has read neither Hazlitt nor Hayek, let alone Mises, Rothbard, or Rand. I wonder if he even recognizes more than one of those names?

Anonymous Deplorable Winning March 18, 2017 3:33 AM  

What's the point of slamming Keynes? Keynes is notable as a progenitor of a nexus of macroeconomic models. Macroeconomics has some trouble settling on a consensus model. It's neither necessary nor proper to attack his integrity.

Oh thou who wouldst decree what is necessary and proper:

Keynes was a con artist and you are a sucker, sucker. How is it you can associate homosexual pedophiles like Keynes with integrity? Are you Phil Sandifer? What makes you think the "nexus of macroeconomic models" that enable counterfeiting, embezzlement, and the resulting destruction of civilization is "proper"? Is this how you justify your student loan debt servitude? Or are you an econ professor? Example of your con:

"Macroeconomics has some trouble settling on a consensus model."

Macroeconomics is a group of ideas. Ideas don't have the agency to "settle" any more than they have agency to take out the garbage. Consensus is a fraud- reality isn't subject to the ballot box. Tell your students that you have defrauded them and that you are a right "proper" pedophile enabler.

he was incredibly intellectually dishonest, and his General Theory was little more than rehashed Freudian nonsense dressed up in math-sounding economics.

You're too charitable. Just like Marxism, Modern Art, and the rest of the filth promoted by the same gang of perps, most of it doesn't make any sense on purpose.

Anonymous Icicle March 18, 2017 4:06 AM  

homosexual pedophiles like Keynes

Bisexual pedophile.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning March 18, 2017 4:35 AM  

Icicle wrote:homosexual pedophiles like Keynes

Bisexual pedophile.


I stand corrected.

Blogger My Dead Gramps March 18, 2017 5:08 AM  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

For anyone who hasn't seen it.

Anonymous Icicle March 18, 2017 5:20 AM  

For anyone who hasn't seen it.

They should cast James Cromwell as Keynes since they both tower around 6'7".

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable March 18, 2017 6:19 AM  

Supply creates its own demand. If you offer a good, then the market will find a price at which it clears.

This does not necessarily hold true of bads, although a mania can even support luxury bads such as public welfare for hostile invaders. Likewise, the market-clearing price may be higher than your cost of production; but that's your problem, not theirs.

On the other side, for demand to create supply, the demand must be effective -- which is to say backed by a sufficiently motivating exchange -- and supply must also be possible at that level of motivation. And that cannot be taken for granted, e.g. there is no amount of money that could buy a round-trip ticket to Mars, let alone Star Trek-style matter transmitters. A reversal of Say's law would be manifestly silly on its face.

Furthermore, it is obvious to everyone whose salary is not dependent on not understanding it that price and value matter. If you spend the public's money on luxury bads, then they will always be worse off, and you can't make it up on volume.

So when I read Keynes' General Theory in college I was very confused. As I recall he said a lot of interesting things (such as about people hand-harvesting coal while machines rusted nearby), then threw up some unrelated and meaningless graphs and formulae, and then sat back smugly with a QED.

I re-read the confusing sections over and over, and finally told my professor that it didn't make sense to me. And he said that was because it was nonsense, and he had only assigned it so we could see that for ourselves and not be gulled by all the praise.

I was simultaneously annoyed and relieved.

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 6:21 AM  

Thanks James, much appreciated.

Au Revoir James!




Blogger Lazarus March 18, 2017 6:28 AM  

SciVo de Plorable wrote:And he said that was because it was nonsense,

Fake economics.

Blogger Cato the Elder March 18, 2017 7:00 AM  

@7 James

P= MV is the physics equation for momentum. I think maybe you meant MV = PQ?

(Cato down under)

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 7:16 AM  

Vox: I don't know who Art Deco is, and it's not for me to instruct you how to debate, but your mockery of him leaves a bad impression.

I see that you get a lot of mileage out of your alpha big-man act. The act is pretty convincing, too; I am not questioning (nor, incidentally, am I affirming) the truth that lies behind it. Too, I observe that you have done more than just about anyone to build up real institutions of the Alt Right, and I honor you for that. But, honestly, sometimes your alpha big-man act just goes over the top.

If you cannot respond to a reasonable question about the integrity of a famous economist without capitalizing "WAY out of his league," then maybe you shouldn't respond at all?

I know, I know. Now I'm WAY out of my league. Vox, cool it, big man. Not every objection to your heterodoxy represents some online pipsqueak trying to pick a fight.

Anonymous Jeff March 18, 2017 7:20 AM  

Nice to see a post on economics. It's been a long time.

It is mind boggling that, despite thousands of years of economic history, the arguments between the various schools continue to rage.

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 7:24 AM  

@18

Yeah I noticed the mistake when I was searching, all is well I still got the answer (hopefully)

However linear momentum is also equally fun.

Blogger Mountain Man March 18, 2017 7:32 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous RabidRatel March 18, 2017 7:33 AM  

@19 Concern Troll is concerned. Welcome to VP. Vox is an acknowledged Sigma. He leaves the alphaness to the alphas, as is proper.

BTW, when you start trolling here, please use a bit of your internet time to learn what VD stands for and what he actually say.

I applaud him for calling out the stupid, because too much of recent science have become "muh science" with a religious fervour, where none dare criticise the "Revered Scientists" (See Climategate). IF you have valid criticism of VD's viewpoint, it is welcome. Attacking him, because you don't like his hairstyle or whatever, will garner one of the VFM a new skull, which I will gladly engrave.

Blogger Mountain Man March 18, 2017 7:34 AM  

Exactly. Call it for what it is.
And the results have been predictably disastrous. Historians 200 years from now will read with mouths agape at how the banksters and politicians in the US pulled this off. Producing nothing , consuming everything while still remaining a worldwide superpower.? Trading hard goods for scrip and forcing the rest of the world to accept it at gunpoint...what a con job.
Ron Paul was instrumental in opening my eyes to this - decades ago.

Anonymous Luke March 18, 2017 7:58 AM  

11. Icicle March 18, 2017 4:06 AM
"homosexual pedophiles like Keynes"

Bisexual pedophile.

Same diff WRT being screwed up, really.

In the immortal words of Andrew Dice Clay:

"You s*ck d*ck -- or you do not."

Blogger Cail Corishev March 18, 2017 8:07 AM  

Vox: I don't know who Art Deco is, and it's not for me to instruct you how to debate, but your mockery of him leaves a bad impression.

Good grief. Concerned individual #2 is here to scold you for mocking concerned individual #1 for scolding you for mocking Keynes.... It's a Concern Spiral!

Anonymous Icicle March 18, 2017 8:09 AM  

Same diff WRT being screwed up, really.

Not quite. Male bisexuals are rare. And even rarer still to add the pedophilia aspect.

In the immortal words of Andrew Dice Clay:

Dumb argument. Milo could turn celibate and his orientation would still be gay.

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 8:21 AM  

Vox: I don't know who Art Deco is, and it's not for me to instruct you how to debate, but your mockery of him leaves a bad impression.

I'm sorry, let me see if I can improve on that. Fuck off and stop wasting my time. I don't give a fragment of an acorn shell excreted from the posterior of a flying rodent about your opinion or the impression you have.

I see that you get a lot of mileage out of your alpha big-man act. The act is pretty convincing, too; I am not questioning (nor, incidentally, am I affirming) the truth that lies behind it. Too, I observe that you have done more than just about anyone to build up real institutions of the Alt Right, and I honor you for that. But, honestly, sometimes your alpha big-man act just goes over the top.

See above.

If you cannot respond to a reasonable question about the integrity of a famous economist without capitalizing "WAY out of his league," then maybe you shouldn't respond at all?

First, it wasn't a reasonable question. Second, it wasn't a question at all, but an ignorant and foolish attempt at criticism. Third, I have already published multiple critiques of Keynes, both here and in RGD, that addressed Art Deco's moronic points.

Maybe you should stop commenting here.

Blogger Joe Keenan March 18, 2017 8:29 AM  

There are, broadly speaking, only two types of philosophers, those who use their wit to know Truth and those who use their wit to rationalize misbehavior. Most modern philosophy is little more than rationalized misbehavior; some macro, some micro, regardless, when someone wants to do wrong they first need a rationalization to justify the wrong they want to do. This is a very dangerous activity as the only protection the weak have from the strong is the moral order. When people abandon the moral order they abandon their own protection. They leave the shield wall, in doing this they not only expose themselves, they weaken the shield wall. They expose others to danger, to enslavement. Keynes philosophy empowers the powerful at the expense of the weak.

Blogger tuberman March 18, 2017 8:33 AM  

27. Ice

"Male bisexuals are rare. And even rarer still to add the pedophilia aspect."

Hmm, Man-Boy love seems pedo, and you can bet a large percent of the OCD watching of porn by gays, and even so-called bi-gays is young boys, and some likely involved with pre-pub boys. If they are any way involed in politics they are going to throw in some young or very young girls, just for the black magic.

Anonymous Icicle March 18, 2017 8:39 AM  

Man-Boy love seems pedo,

That is always pedo. Unless you mean pederasty?

and you can bet a large percent of the OCD watching of porn by gays, and even so-called bi-gays is young boys, and some likely involved with pre-pub boys.

Maybe, maybe not. The bisexual male sample is small and has not started to be studied until recently. It's distinct.

If they are any way involed in politics they are going to throw in some young or very young girls, just for the black magic.

There are straight, homosexual, and bisexual pedophiles.

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 8:43 AM  

Ok, Vox, have it your way. I am properly fucked off.

I am not your enemy but your friend. However, this last fact is unlikely to make further headway today.

So, if I merely said, keep up the good work, would you accept that much? If you would, then, yeah, I think that you are wrong on this point, but keep up the good work. I mean it. And, just to be comradely about it, if it makes you feel any better: fuck you, too.

Anonymous Luke March 18, 2017 8:45 AM  

Yes, Icicle, but nonstraights are multiple times as likely to be pedos as straights (or, normals) are.

For that reason the legal and societal default should be keeping them the Hades AWAY from children not their own, as well as from any vulnerable people.
That means that homos and bis both should never be allowed to be teachers, clergy, counselors, sports coaches, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, really anything in the medical field that has direct patient contact, and of course media, the military (unless we institute Soviet-style penal battalions) or intelligence services.

Anonymous BBGKB March 18, 2017 8:51 AM  

General Theory was little more than rehashed Freudian nonsense dressed up in math-sounding economics

How did I miss the part where Keynes wants to have sex with his moms purse? I don't know why anyone is defending him after both Zimbabwe and Argentina proved him wrong.

(Is there any honorable Native Name for you Vox?) His Indian name is "Dances on Periscope"

Ever thought, that maybe Socialism has always been about taking total control over a Land...despite the reasons given to believe it were pretty weak it

Everywhere it has been tried it worked out as an Elite ruling over slaves. The (((Russian))) oligarchs had vastly more power/wealth before communism fell.

one of the controlling factors of poverty is caused by the banking industry who create our Money Supply and determines who it is issued to

Banks are often the cause of Famine as well. The charity grain sent from the US to Ireland was impounded so it wouldn't lower grain prices. Food price manipulation was of the things Andrew Jackson cited in his war against the bankers.

Supply creates its own demand. If you offer a good, then the market will find a price at which it clears

No kidding one of the later Planned Parenthood hidden camera videos showed the negotiation over the price of a bag of dicks. Even Oprah can't get enough of them. http://www.inquisitr.com/495428/oprah-endorses-foreskin-face-cream-penis-proponents-protest/

Not quite. Male bisexuals are rare.

Males who admit they are bi are rare because gay men and STR8 women won't tryst them around anyone if they admit it. I saw the typo in trust and decided to leave it. Buysexuals will sleep with anything.

Anonymous Icicle March 18, 2017 9:00 AM  

Yes, Icicle, but nonstraights are multiple times as likely to be pedos as straights (or, normals)
...
That means that homos and bis both should never be allowed


Are you including asexuals?
14 times+ for gays.
I'm not entirely sure the same pathologies extend from gays to bis.

Males who admit they are bi are rare because gay men and STR8 women won't tryst them around anyone if they admit it. I saw the typo in trust and decided to leave it. Buysexuals will sleep with anything.

We need a campaign to fight biphobia.
"They're a bit queer, they might be here. Get used to it sometimes."


OK we're getting away from the Keynes topic now.

Anonymous james@wpc March 18, 2017 9:00 AM  

@7 James

P= MV is the physics equation for momentum. I think maybe you meant MV = PQ?

(Cato down under)

That's confusing. If I'd realise there were variations on the formula I would have spelled it out. Thanks for mentioning it. The formula I was referring to is Production (GDP) = Money (Supply) x Velocity. Velocity refers to the number of times the money supply turns over in a given financial year. In boom times it might be 1.1 times and in recession it might be 0.9.

So in general terms for discussion, it can be left out as you would leave out a multiplying factor of 1 in any formula. For discussion terms then, it could be understood as GDP will be the size of the Money Supply for any given year.

Change the size of the MS and you change the size of the economy. When increasing the MS, there needs to be unused resources to absorb it productively otherwise you get inflation which is the other way to equalise the value in dollars of the P to equal the M.

Sorry for the confusion.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 9:08 AM  

"If you cannot respond to a reasonable question about the integrity of a famous economist without capitalizing "WAY out of his league," then maybe you shouldn't respond at all?"

Praising Keynes here is worse than praising Hillary here.

You don't know that because you are obviously very new. Perhaps given the nature of Vox's response... your best play would have been to wonder why the hammer came down so hard... and ask.

Blogger Durandel Almiras March 18, 2017 9:14 AM  

How is it possible that every Gamma that comes here somehow follows the same script, every, damn, time!

I am not your enemy but your friend. However, this last fact is unlikely to make further headway today.

Claims to be on your side, followed by a passive-aggressive slight, indicating the completely opposite of the former. "We're on the same side... You just don't appreciate my marksmanship!"

So, if I merely said, keep up the good work, would you accept that much? If you would, then, yeah, I think that you are wrong on this point, but keep up the good work.

Attempts to get you to agree by using a flattery, because if you agree, then see, his slightly altered version that follows means that his opinion does matter, because because.

And, just to be comradely about it, if it makes you feel any better: fuck you, too.

Why am I reminded of that awful scene by Scalzi where the soldier says to the other soldier, "I owe you a blow job"? Disconnected on how men actually talk and operate.

@32 Fuck off Howard. If you want to be an ally, shut up and shoot left, and go read up at Alpha Game on how to quit being an obnoxious Gamma. How some self respect and be man.


Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 9:16 AM  

@7 @36

Eduardo... ignore everything this man said. Keynes is an idiot. GDP is a myth and the equation is he is so impressed with calculates magic unicorn farts.

Keynes was never trained in economics. he never studied economics. He had no knowledge of any economics that came before him. He simply looked at it... thought up something that made sense to him, and more importantly something he could sell, and rolled it out.

He was a contemptible pathetic fraud who's work has been so thoroughly disproven that hardly a year goes by that something doesn't happen to disprove it all. For example just this week the fed raised the rate using Keynesian models and Keynesian predictors.

But what they wanted to happen.. and what they fully expected to happen.. did not happen. in fact the opposite happened. And they are now left scrambling. They cannot control the market. They have never been able to control the market.

There is not one shred of truth to the abomination John Maynard Keynes foisted on the world.

Eduardo... if you want a start... start with The Return of the Great Depression.

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 9:19 AM  

I think that you are wrong on this point, but keep up the good work.

I don't care what you think either. I run the blog in the same way I have run it since 2003. I will continue to run it that way. I see absolutely no reason to change it.

Why do people like you continue to offer unsolicited advice on how I should run one of the more successful individual blogs on the Internet? I neither want nor accept any such advice. My principle is very straightforward: don't pay any attention to the opinions of people who aren't already doing it better than I am.

MPAI. And when one of those many idiots happens to comment here in the future, he can rest assured he will meet with the same dismissive treatment as his many antecedents did.

Anonymous Mister M March 18, 2017 9:20 AM  

Gary North quite ably rips apart Keynes as well. He set me straight on this years ago. Keynes gave politicians an excuse to spend - that's exactly what I surmised as well.

Blogger MrPaules March 18, 2017 9:31 AM  

You can take a pile of money and set it on a table in front of any group of people. The stash can be anything from an inheritance to a sales bonus. A normal-minded person will decide what percentage of the stack belongs to him based on his sense of fairness or some type of internal justification. But there's always one person in the group who thinks the stash is %100 his even if he won't articulate his desire in the moment. You commonly find such people in politics, a field that seems to attract an inordinate number of sociopaths. If Keynes weren't the justification, they would surely find another to justify their theft.

Anonymous Concerned Individual #9 March 18, 2017 9:38 AM  

How is it possible that every Gamma that comes here somehow follows the same script, every, damn, time!

They are members of C.U.C.K. Cuckolds United Coercion Kleptocracy.

to fight biphobia. "They're a bit queer, they might be here. Get used to it sometimes."

They're a bit queer, they might be here, but don't trust them at the quilting bee.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 9:41 AM  

" If Keynes weren't the justification, they would surely find another to justify their theft. "

yes.. they would. but it wouldn't sound all mathy and sciency! and they do love it when it sounds mathy and sciency!

Blogger praetorian March 18, 2017 9:42 AM  

Keen thinks there were a few good chapters of Keynes.

Fuck Krugman, et al and all that, but if Keen thinks there is some value there I'm not smart enough to gainsay him.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl March 18, 2017 10:08 AM  

Oh, Keynes. Like Freud, someone whose work has been so thoroughly debunked and proven wrong it can only survive in academe.

The adherence to Keynes made me quit taking Economics in university.

"Without supply, there is no demand!"

"If demand for a product doesn't exist, it's the job of the State to create the demand!"

Anonymous james@wpc March 18, 2017 10:09 AM  

Nate wrote:Eduardo... ignore everything this man said. Keynes is an idiot. GDP is a myth and the equation is he is so impressed with calculates magic unicorn farts.

Hahaha, beautiful. I was wondering how long it would take. You got me there Nate. I can't argue with nor improve on that logic.

You could use some improvement re your reading skills, though, if you think I was endorsing Keynes in any way. The man wasn't an idiot, though, just like banker masters weren't/aren't idiots. But he was despicable just like bankers are.

He is despicable because he lied to the world and he knew he was doing it and sentenced generations to unpayable debt to the bankers. His reward? A lordship and, no doubt, not being outed for his homosexuality (and perhaps his paedophilia if he was one).

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 10:19 AM  

For crying out loud, Vox, I hadn't realized that you were such a hopeless stinker. You ought to dial it back, son, but you won't, will you?

It's too bad, really. You could have been great. Your train has the coal, but it lacks the steel.

Blogger Resident Moron™ March 18, 2017 10:22 AM  

Keynes was a court intellectual, a hofjuden (no, not literally), a conscious and deliberate prostitute of the mind.

He sold his integrity for a mess of potage, and found no lack of buyers, even after his demise.

You might properly infer from this that he was rather clever. But value in historical terms is the product of ability and integrity. Once the latter becomes negative, increasing the former only makes you a bigger disaster.

There are plenty of others like him, now and historically, and always more who would willingly become like him. Keep one hand on your wallet, one hand on your pistol, and back slowly away ...

Blogger Big Rich March 18, 2017 10:36 AM  

"The only reason it became popular is because it gave politicians an excuse to do what they wanted - spend money."

As I've gotten older, I've realized "excuse," is the ultimate foundation that all pillars of leftist ideology are built upon. Not just specifically economics but evolution, climate change, socialism, abortion, political correctness, identity politics -- all the doctrines that form the general orthodoxy of the left. None of these pillars make the case they claim to make. Upon close examination, the "evidence" of their truthfulness, logic or scientific underpinnings, evaporates. They are all just good stories. They are Orwellian excuses. Aldous Huxley:

“I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; and consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. For myself, as no doubt for most of my friends, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation from a certain system of morality.... We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom. ”

More recently geneticist, Richard Lewontin:

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism."

In a fallen world, fallen people would rather believe a lie than accept the truth, because the lie gives them the excuse they need.

Anonymous Ivan Throne March 18, 2017 10:38 AM  

@VD on #40:

"My principle is very straightforward: don't pay any attention to the opinions of people who aren't already doing it better than I am."

This is why I listen to Vox Day.

This is why I listen to Mike Cernovich.

This is why I listen to Milo Yiannopoulos.

This is why I listen to the God Emperor on the Cherry Blossom Throne.

And not to fake Americans fed by fake news.

Regards,

Ivan

Blogger MrPaules March 18, 2017 10:54 AM  

"My principle is very straightforward: don't pay any attention to the opinions of people who aren't already doing it better than I am."

A troll is like a fart in polite company. Everybody smells it, but the polite thing is to ignore it.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 18, 2017 11:11 AM  

The only reason it became popular is because it gave politicians an excuse to do what they wanted - spend money.

Exactly. Theory becomes popular because it provides a superficially plausible rationalization for the actions people feel impelled to take.

Social mood drives action, action seeks rationalization, beliefs are embraced and theories that back it all rise to prominence regardless of how illogical and irrational they facially may be.

And social mood exhibits a form that is a patterned fractal.

This is the only consistent view that explains the boom/bust, rational/irrational sine wave of history.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 18, 2017 11:14 AM  

Anyone who can talk with a straight face about "the paradox of thrift" is a complete moron who has zero clue of from where economic exchange arises.

Blogger dc.sunsets March 18, 2017 11:21 AM  

SciVo, you're misquoting Say's Law in the modern way. Supply doesn’t create demand.

In order to consume, you must first produce (something that can be sold for more than the sum of its inputs.)

Getting this statement wrong is the foundation of every macroeconomic idiocy to come down the pike.

OpenID thetroll March 18, 2017 11:24 AM  

> Vox is an acknowledged Sigma. He leaves the alphaness to the alphas, as is proper.

There's no such thing as a "Sigma". "Sigma"s are instinctual alphas that can't be arsed to bother putting up with idiots like a real alpha does. That really shouldn't be _that_ hard to figure out if you watch Vox for, like, a week. At most.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 18, 2017 11:24 AM  

@48 is the quality of the concern trolls here going down? "for crying outloud", "Stinker"? What the fuck is that? This person reads like a transitioning pajama boy.

@47 you're too short for this ride. "it would work if the government did it instead" has never been a winning argument in any circumstance, ever.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2017 11:25 AM  

Cuckservative wants to join the winning team, but thinks it would be even better if it cucked more. How very.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 18, 2017 11:28 AM  

Also all of the gamma boxes are now being checked including "This time I am really going to do it and you'll be sorry! I really am going to leave, for reals!"

Anonymous shitpost mcpoop March 18, 2017 11:33 AM  

Gary north has a lot of great articles he's written about the stain of Keynes. My two favorites:

The Economics of Perversion
http://www.garynorth.com/public/15320.cfm

The Society of Satan
http://www.garynorth.com/public/14565.cfm

Blogger dc.sunsets March 18, 2017 11:38 AM  

I wonder when it will be fashionable to notice the absurdity of counting government spending in "GDP" especially when under the regime of the last 36 years, for every dollar borrowed, one dollar trickled through the economy and a second dollar was counted as an Accounts Receivable Asset in the form of a bond?

I wonder when or if any of today's Fake Economists will ever acknowledge that all the "wealth" so created was nothing but a mirage that induced misallocation of capital on an unprecedented scale?

Anonymous james@wpc March 18, 2017 11:44 AM  

basementhomebrewer wrote:

@47 you're too short for this ride. "it would work if the government did it instead" has never been a winning argument in any circumstance, ever.


you're too short for this ride
Ad Hominem.

"it would work if the government did it instead"
You're referring to govt issued credit/money I presume.

has never been a winning argument in any circumstance, ever.
Ok, I'm all ears. Make your argument - against govt issued credit which is what we're talking about.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 18, 2017 12:02 PM  

You are not our comrade.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 18, 2017 12:04 PM  

You're a faggot

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 18, 2017 12:06 PM  

Really? 1 word, corruption. Government employees have no skin in the game. If you put them in charge of issuing credit they WILL abuse that power as they already do with government spending.

Blogger Billy Ray March 18, 2017 12:14 PM  

don't blame keynes (although there is a lot to blame). his model said to deficit spend ONLY IN BAD TIMES. when the good time return, save money and pay off the debt. politicians hear "spend money" and ignore everything else. that's on them, NOT KEYNES. the left AND the right love to misintepret the guy and his economic model

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 12:25 PM  

" his model said to deficit spend ONLY IN BAD TIMES. when the good time return, save money and pay off the debt."

His model was bullshit. from beginning to end it was circular bullshit.

Jesus if you can read about animal spirits and take anything he says seriously after that then you belong on tumblr.

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 12:25 PM  

All you Vox-sidekicks: I hope that you're having fun sparring with me. It'll be good practice for when you encounter someone who is actually your foe.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 12:46 PM  

HJH: I'm sure this is pearls before swine but I'll try.

Dude, if you're really a "friend" just shut up, keep hanging out here and ask sincere questions. We have smart folks and they will point you to various sites and books. I know, because 13 years ago I asked Vox for some good starting Econ books and he kindly obliged.

You can start badly and learn from it. Many of us here did and no one will care after a few days.

But if all you're going to do is what you're doing here, you're the stupid kid on the playground. No one wants you around and you won't leave us alone, even if it's just to run to the far end and yell cheesy insults at the top of your lungs.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 12:48 PM  

Billy Ray wrote:don't blame keynes (although there is a lot to blame). his model said to deficit spend ONLY IN BAD TIMES. when the good time return, save money and pay off the debt. politicians hear "spend money" and ignore everything else. that's on them, NOT KEYNES. the left AND the right love to misintepret the guy and his economic model

Except no government EVER stops spending. They obligate themselves to keep spending forever no matter what the economy does.

Like Communism, if the theory "sounds good but doesn't work", then it's a completely SHITTY THEORY.

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 12:51 PM  

For crying out loud, Vox, I hadn't realized that you were such a hopeless stinker. You ought to dial it back, son, but you won't, will you?

I rate your concern-trolling 3/10. And few things are more tedious, or predictable, than post-rebuke gamma posturing.

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 12:55 PM  

The root cause of the 1930's Great Depression was bank generated credit being used as if it were money and its subsequent collapse, leaving behind legally binding debts with no monetary means to service them.
The root cause of the 2008 Financial Crisis was bank generated credit being used as if it were money and its subsequent collapse, leaving behind legally binding debts with no monetary means to service them.
The single greatest accomplishment of banking in the past 100 years was convincing people that the bank's debt to them, expressed as deposit account lines of credit, was their money.
Vox Day's solutions to the current bankster debt driven crisis is, nothing more than a tweak of the same old bankster debt driven bullshit we're currently suffering. Yet another version of extend and pretend.

Blogger GreenEyedJinn March 18, 2017 12:56 PM  

Proposing the (false) Paradox of Thrift as a foundation for a formulaic plan of economic 'recovery' and as a moral justification for politicians' spending money they neither have or own is just an extension of Collectivist Ideology.
There is zero integrity in Collectivism.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 1:07 PM  

Dwain Dibley wrote:
Vox Day's solutions to the current bankster debt driven crisis is, nothing more than a tweak of the same old bankster debt driven bullshit we're currently suffering. Yet another version of extend and pretend.


Sorry, so that I may keep up: Do kindly share what solutions Vox proposed and where?

Blogger dc.sunsets March 18, 2017 1:10 PM  

And when one rationalization/delusion begins to sputter, along comes its double-down in MMT.

Something for nothing is a powerful motivator and the way every mark in a con game volunteers to be fleeced.

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 1:11 PM  

@68

Michael Maier: Fair enough.

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 1:12 PM  

@67 Howard

Don't be so pissed at Vox he has... his ways. It is just what the Internet Breeds over long periods of time of exposure to people that absolutely hate you, you get somewhat shortfused.

@59 Brewer

Let him gamma about XD, come on his feelings are obviously hurt, have you no heart inside that cold, harsh, dry, full-of-blades-pointing-inwards-jail you call a chest cavity?

You don't?!?

Explain why all those Vampire hunters couldn't kill you.

Cue Stake Scene

@51 Ivan

And that is why everybody must read you Ivan!

@39 Nate

Oh I read pretty much all posts Vox written here, back when my pass-time was read Vox Day old blog posts! But I know exactly zero of economics, just the shallow of shallow, so There are questions that arise, like : "Is the Left's usual complain that the system produces a systematic difference among people (usually through imoral means) holds any water?"

I just wander if any one could devise a easily demonstratable plan that will provide a good life for everybody. Not that would ever happen, but if someone could show to a group a Course of Action that creates a good life for everybody within the group, how could anyone be mad at that? It is kind of like, what pulls people into Communism but without the buts that stuff the graves. Something more based on the idea of sweat of your brown or no pain no gain, no Wealthfare just straight up wörk!

Just as a general concept: Picture a sexy blacksmith smithing a glowing sword... Now replace Fabio for you. See! The perfect wörker!

@34 Big not str8 person.

I gotta admit, having vox around a camp fire, sitting on a throne with wolfs around him would propel him to even more darker accomplishments.

Blogger Gary March 18, 2017 1:12 PM  

Extend and pretend will end soon. Within 5 years, at the bottom of solar cycle 24 most likely.
It'll take another 10 years for US hyperinflation to hit at most.
Then the globalists can run the world, via the BIS and the UN.
Those with the gold have the set up ready: Europe, Russia, China. A fine bunch of atheists, satan is rubbing his hands. It'll look like a free market set up, and it will be to a certain degree, but the big nations and the big corporations will be hand in glove, and national freedoms will be subject to global rules, everywhere.
Hell on earth.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 1:13 PM  

Dwain Dibley wrote:Yet another version of extend and pretend.

Also, at this point, "extend and pretend" can be seen as a moral course of action.

This is the biggest bubble in the history of man. I doubt any corner of the globe will go unscathed should the money train stop.

There might be a death toll in the billions should it stop.

Yes, our world is drowning in mal-investment. But the cure could make chemo look like a walk in the park. And our "Masters" will use the crisis to horrific ends.

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 1:16 PM  

@39 Nate

I mean about Keynes...

Damn it me and this word eating thing. My brain goes too fast for my hands!

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 1:16 PM  

Vox: You're just making this up as you go along.

Anonymous Trump-Democrat March 18, 2017 1:17 PM  

"I inherited a mess" -Donald Trump 2/16/2017

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 1:23 PM  

Vox Day's solutions to the current bankster debt driven crisis is, nothing more than a tweak of the same old bankster debt driven bullshit we're currently suffering. Yet another version of extend and pretend.

Really? Which solutions are those?

Vox: You're just making this up as you go along.

Gamma intensifies.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 1:24 PM  

"I just wander if any one could devise a easily demonstratable plan that will provide a good life for everybody. "

the best way to create a good life for everyone is to get the hell out of the way and let them make a good life for themselves the best way they see fit.

Most will.

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 1:29 PM  

Vox: However, your characterization of concern trolling is just. I get it. My threshold is calibrated differently than yours, but so what?

For the record, I happen to admire Keynes, though I do not doubt that you have read him more deeply than I. The criticism that Keynes was a paedophile ... well, that's a novel angle of attack.

Hayek was an ideologue in my view. Hayek's Road to Serfdom (which was short enough to hold my attention, cover to cover) made several good points. However, on the whole, Hayek didn't persuade me, at least not when I read his book about 1989.

Was Hayek a paedophile?

Anonymous Human G. Hormone March 18, 2017 1:30 PM  

Vox, you know you need more than I need you.

Anonymous Trump-Democrat March 18, 2017 1:33 PM  

I was under the impression that a feeble defense of Keynes was the only sort possible.

I have heard asanine defenses of Keynes

Anonymous Grayman March 18, 2017 1:46 PM  

Eduardo


I just wander if any one could devise a easily demonstratable plan that will provide a good life for everybody.....


No. It's no different than building a perpetual motion machine. There is no free lunch.
Hypothetically yes you can, look at a bose-Einstein condensate. You can force a group of particles to all into the same energetic state. But it is a very fragile state held near absolute 0.
In human terms if you genetically engineered a population of human clones that would all respond approximately the same to a given environment then perhaps under extremely strict conditions in an isolated system you could pull socialism / communism off.

Trying to build utopia is a fools errand that has been response for some of the greatest slaughters in history.

Anonymous Grayman March 18, 2017 1:50 PM  

Gary

It'll look like a free market set up, and it will be to a certain degree, but the big nations and the big corporations will be hand in glove, and national freedoms will be subject to global rules, everywhere.

As Michael said, the death toll will be in the billions but I believe your scenario is unlikely. The string will emerge from the slaughter and globalism will not be tolerated by those that emerge on the other side of this.

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 1:51 PM  

@73 Michael Maier wrote:

Sorry, so that I may keep up: Do kindly share what solutions Vox proposed and where?


Sorry for not including: "The Return of the Great Depression"
1. The Feds must raise interest rates
2. No more bailouts
3. Cut income taxes.
4. Eliminate 'pork'
5. Audit the Federal Reserve. (Neat idea)
6. Curtails the SEC's power to regulate stock exchanges. As police, they do a very poor job.
7. Ban banking bonuses.
8. End the federal monetary monopoly.
ETC.

Anonymous Grayman March 18, 2017 1:51 PM  

The "strong" will emerge....

Blogger Mr. Naron March 18, 2017 1:58 PM  

Keynes was Satanic. "Savings is destructive" ranks just below "Surely you shall not die" on the Causes of Original Sin list. The 20th Century, when man finally solved the problem of scarcity ( not eliminated, because you can't. Just solved the problem of it.) Here comes Keynes into the garden to undo the whole thing.

Blogger Howard J. Harrison March 18, 2017 1:59 PM  

Vox: I am not a seventeen-year-old negro high-school cornerback who desperately needs to get in the last word on yo momma before the ball is snapped. At this point, whatever I say (including this), you will poop acorn shells on it, or Gamma turds or flying rodents or flaming faggots or whatever you next think of. It's hardly even worth telling you that I don't really care. Why do you care? Because I am a predictable Gamma, as you have so unerringly discerned?

Dude, whatever you say. Eduardo's advice is noted. I still like the blog. I forbid you to take that as a compliment.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 2:02 PM  

"For the record, I happen to admire Keynes, though I do not doubt that you have read him more deeply than I. "

dude.

we don't care.

Vox doesn't care.

You may as well be saying "I admire hillary clinton."

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 2:03 PM  

" I am not a seventeen-year-old negro high-school cornerback who desperately needs to get in the last word on yo momma before the ball is snapped. "

and yet you keep talking.

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 2:10 PM  

@78Michael Maier wrote:
Also, at this point, "extend and pretend" can be seen as a moral course of action.

This is the biggest bubble in the history of man. I doubt any corner of the globe will go unscathed should the money train stop.

There might be a death toll in the billions should it stop.

Yes, our world is drowning in mal-investment. But the cure could make chemo look like a walk in the park. And our "Masters" will use the crisis to horrific ends.

Yes, the biggest bubble in the history of man, with 97% of global commerce being conducted in bankster generated, asset-backed, debt-based, PRIVATE CREDIT, denominated in national legal tender currencies that the banks don't have and cannot get, yet that is the payment their debt-based private credit legally represents. Yep, that could pose a problem when their debt-based private credit !POOF!s out of existence leaving nothing behind but the contracted debts and no monetary means to pay them.

Anonymous Stickwick March 18, 2017 2:21 PM  

People say behavioral science can never be a true science, because people are unpredictable. In response to that, I herewith present the Gamma, a man so utterly predictable in his behavior you could set your watch to him.

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 2:22 PM  

It's hardly even worth telling you that I don't really care. Why do you care? Because I am a predictable Gamma, as you have so unerringly discerned?

Of course it's not worth saying it. Because it wouldn't be true. Gammas always care. The rejection stings you because you care. You shared your opinion despite not being asked for it because you care.

And yet, you claim not to care because you're too Gamma to be honest.

Your behavior is entirely in line with Gamma norms; although you're more emotionally continent than the average, you're still too Gamma to simply shut up and stop digging.

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 2:26 PM  

@83 Nate

Yes... but some don't. A lot of people don't even see their potential, they are stuck always trying to do the same thing when they could easily work in a different area. Let me tell you why I thought of this, it is not central planning, or rather it is central planning in the very fisrt stage but without any coersion.

See think that you arrive in a city, small town 10,000 habitants, all hard working and gentle people. (yes! it is totally unrealistic but just so you can understand the general idea)

Most people are employed in small-wage jobs, and the city, long past its haydays is deprived of many benefits you see in more economically active cities. So what you do? You devise a number of business models for the locals, businesses they didn't even realised their city had a potential for. No coersion, you are just a smooth talking salesman.

Your plan will ensure Medium to High wages for all families in the city, and your plan can be shown, step-by-step. It is up to the people if they will follow your advice your not but your plan works! (yes you are a total genius, and yes assuming your reading of the market is accurate) why shouldn't they follow your plan!?!

That is what I had in mind.

@87 Grayman

Grayman, the idea is not to have an Utopia, but more to find within the landscape of possibilities, of business possibilities the best possible business model for a group. It is kind of like building a complex system (system engineering) and showing the people the door. There will be no heaven on the other side, but maybe, just maybe, this time around the grass can be greener on the other side of the hill... after the 10th hole.

It would use the system we already have, no need for revolutions, just good and old new form of business. Large clusters business building business.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2017 2:41 PM  

Hahaha, I sensed that this is not your ordinary butthurt, this is exquisite, above-and-beyond butthurt. And behold, I was correct

Anonymous Grayman March 18, 2017 2:43 PM  

Eduardo,

It sounds great, but people are primarily emotional and secondarily logical. Your plan is logical and would be crashed by human emotional responses.

Each of us is the root cause of our own unhappiness due to that dichotomy, emotional vs logical

This nations founders already provided the answer.... the opportunity to pursue happiness. No outcome can be guaranteed. Furthermore as Vox has pointed out this also is predicated on a homogeneous society.

That perfect logical system, is seductive to everyone but what you are saying is no different than the current neo-marxists claiming they can do better than Stalin or Mao.

THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH

WHAT CAN GO WRONG WILL GO WRONG (people are not generally rational)

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 2:45 PM  

VD wrote:

Really? Which solutions are those?

Vox: You're just making this up as you go along.

Gamma intensifies.


I posted them @89

And no, I'm not "making this up as you go along", I've been working on the subject of our monetary system, or the lack thereof, for several years now, even have a blog on the subject: http://carl-random-thoughts.blogspot.com/



Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 2:56 PM  

Dwain, just stop. Vox didn't write: "You're just making this up as you go along."

Vox was QUOTING the goofy butthurt gamma swine.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 2:59 PM  

@Edurado: And who the Hell are you to "better" others' lives? YOU will "devise" their lives? YOU'RE that brilliant?

I doubt it. If you could and you were, you'd open a business there and draw productivity in and better their lives that way.

But you can't because that take invested capital and REAL foresight and your skin in the game.

There are no "magic tricks".

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 3:03 PM  

@100 Grayman

Well yeah, I thought of that, you see, right about now, it's far more theoretical talking, "what would happen in a perfect system". I agree people are mostly emotional and they will not engage in good business out of their own volition, have more them several cases in my family of people throwing away good jobs, including myself (Being a millenial sucks).

Now yeah, I can obviously see the basket of deplorable promises I'm commiting myself to, the whole if only you give me a Billion I will work magic; but still... if Only I had the chance to attempt to do it I might be able to draw some nice conclusions.

(The practical ideas I have are too pathetic and Robin Hood -esque XD, so I shall not sperg them at your feet sir)

------------------

One Lemon
200 mL of Vodka or Cachaça
2 spoons of sugar
and lots of ice

really good Caipirinha n_n!

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 3:04 PM  

"Yes... but some don't"

Correct. And any attempt to help those that don't actually reduces the total number of successful individuals by creating roadblocks for those who do.

Blogger Nate March 18, 2017 3:06 PM  

"Your behavior is entirely in line with Gamma norms; although you're more emotionally continent than the average, you're still too Gamma to simply shut up and stop digging."

The gamma was obvious from the first comment. The standard stilted gamma language. Tally Ho my good man!

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 18, 2017 3:10 PM  

Gamma G Gammason is really a woman playing dress up.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 3:10 PM  

Dwain Dibley wrote:@73 Michael Maier wrote:



Sorry, so that I may keep up: Do kindly share what solutions Vox proposed and where?


Sorry for not including: "The Return of the Great Depression"
1. The Feds must raise interest rates
2. No more bailouts
3. Cut income taxes.
4. Eliminate 'pork'
5. Audit the Federal Reserve. (Neat idea)
6. Curtails the SEC's power to regulate stock exchanges. As police, they do a very poor job.
7. Ban banking bonuses.
8. End the federal monetary monopoly.
ETC.



OK, thanks. I read that a good while back and don't recall the prescriptions. (Assuming you've posted all that accurately) the only way you can call Vox' ideas "extend and pretend" is if you assume you're still working in the framework of the Fed as it is. Which I believe Vox must have been. (IF)IRC, he thinks private banks would do better than the FED.

And continuing with the FED requires "extend and pretend" to at least some degree.

I agree with Vox that money should be much more expensive. Lowering the cost of money creates speculative malinvestment and devastates savings and the currency.

I cannot see valid arguments against:
2. No more bailouts
5. Audit the Federal Reserve. (Neat idea)

These all seem obviously good ideas to me:
1. The Feds must raise interest rates
3. Cut income taxes.
4. Eliminate 'pork'
6. Curtails the SEC's power to regulate stock exchanges. As police, they do a very poor job.
8. End the federal monetary monopoly.

As for 7. Ban banking bonuses.
I'm not a fan of govt interference with private businesses so I actually do not agree with this one.

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 3:13 PM  

Michael Maier wrote:Dwain, just stop. Vox didn't write: "You're just making this up as you go along."

Vox was QUOTING the goofy butthurt gamma swine.


No, he quoted a portion of my post and made those comments in response.

It's OK, I understand why.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 3:13 PM  

Nate wrote:"Yes... but some don't"

Correct. And any attempt to help those that don't actually reduces the total number of successful individuals by creating roadblocks for those who do.



If I'm reading Eduardo wrong fine, but his thoughts read Socialist, with "happy free will" dressing sprinkled on top.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 3:15 PM  

Dwain Dibley wrote:Michael Maier wrote:Dwain, just stop. Vox didn't write: "You're just making this up as you go along."

Vox was QUOTING the goofy butthurt gamma swine.


No, he quoted a portion of my post and made those comments in response.

It's OK, I understand why.


NO, you don't.

Vox frequently batches responses to different people in the same post.

I wish folks wouldn't just for this reason: It invites confusion.

But when I point it out to you and you keep it up, that's just goofy. And if you keep trying to cast dispersion on Vox' intent, he's gonna ban your goofy ass.

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 3:19 PM  

@103 Michael Maier

Devise their lives? No, no such thing. Devise a nice business that maybe an individual hasn't thought it? Maybe yes. The idea is not to control people's lives but to offer a better a life. You might not notice (or rather you dfo notice you just haven't thought of it) but our car companies, our phone companies and any company that shape our every day gives us their lifestyle, they influence us to have a btter life. It would be no different then that, just with something else.

Oh I doubt I am that brilliant too, no whines on my side about it.
Michael you could obviously open a business and help them, but you see your neighbour who is a great talker and knows a great deal of, let's say History of Civilization, yet he is oblivious to his skill, yet you are not, and DEVISE a business model that takes advantage of his skill, FOR HIM!

Well the last paragraph being written, I must admit, the original idea is not just to have ideas. The original plan was to invest, and help the newly formed company with administration and expenses, you wont be entirely disconnected, your skin will be in the game, the business on the other hand will not benefit you as much as benefits your neighbour though. Of course you yourself must have another type of stable income.
Sure I would need REAL insight, but I don't want to go half baked, I am about to ask for a vote of trust of my fellow man and I would fail them miserably just to make a quick buck? I am not that much Evil Socialist bastard Michael.

U____U There are no magic tricks but that are some pretty good tricks Michael! Hopefully... maybe...

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 3:32 PM  

@105 Nate

Oh yes, but again the idea is not to slave the successful man, to PROP UP his useless cousin because Feelz or something like that. The idea is to have "REAL INSIGHT" about the local market to offer people a better way. Yeah maybe the dude's cousin doesn't like any kind of job, if so, well he would have just said no to all your businesses proposals, that is all!

I don't support the idea of hurting a succesful person's success because others suck, but doesn't mean I can't try to help them (With my own money of course)

@110 Michael

Truth is the very first step is very Socialist in the whole Central Planning idea, Michael. You are not entirely wrong that there is Socialist smell to the idea.

But you are not seeing the idea but what it trully is, you are worried that some body else will tell you what to do. Now it is true that I would be "telling you waht to do", but you could just say no. You could just disagree with whatever business model I proposed to you. heck you could trick me, and make one better using my as a model!

Like I said, no Coersion.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 18, 2017 3:40 PM  

Two Gammas in the same thread. Amazing.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 3:46 PM  

Eduardo, what makes you think it is even possible to have that much insight into anyone's life, let alone an entire community's?

Anonymous Human G. Hormone March 18, 2017 3:53 PM  

@99 Markku aha!

The fellow in the red tunic he refers to is all my doing, baby, that's all me!

Blogger Scott Birch March 18, 2017 3:56 PM  

Howard, quit your tone-policing. You're not our governess, so go away snd show us how it's done with your successful blog.

Oh, of course ..

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 4:10 PM  

@115

Touché. Maybe I am reaching longer then my arm can reach when I think I could maximize wagers for an entire community. I mean I don't wanna go door to door asking: "Please jolly good ol'fella, might telling me your INCOME and workplace and current house expenditure!!!"

Just thinking of it, I guess I would receive that question with a punch.

Well yeah, right now, I have to admit, I have no idea how to gather the necessary information.

Maybe I thinking about this problem in the wrong way, I need a Theory for Maximizing Wagers first and the Systems Engineering later to analyse how businesses interact with each other.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 18, 2017 4:17 PM  

48. Howard J. Harrison
Your intellectual firepower = a squirtgun.
You really need to lurk more.

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 4:17 PM  

@108 Michael Maier

As I stated, Vox's 'fix' is just a tweak of the same old bankster debt driven bullshit, but that's (((capitalism))) for you.

There is a total of $1.5-Trillion in U.S. legal tender dollars in circulation around the globe. Of that, $280-Billion is in circulation within the U.S. Of that, $71-Billion is held in bank vaults. The Fed breaks that $71-billion down as $61-Billion required reserves and $10-Billion as excess reserves.

The $71-Billion held in bank vaults backs the $1.9-Trillion in credited demand deposit accounts. It also backs the $9.3-Trillion in credited savings deposit accounts. It also backs all commercial credit transactions, from Main Street to Wall Street and all points between and beyond. It also backs all government payments. And that, is the reality of Fractional Reserve Banking.

Neither the Federal Reserve or the banks possess the legal authority to create money of any type, and they don't. There is no U.S. law that designates or even acknowledges the debt-based private credit generated by the Fed and the banks as being a money, and it sure as hell isn't a U.S. legal tender. The only laws associated with Fed and bankster generated debt-based private credit, resides in the debts incurred with its use.

As for @111

There is nothing in his response that indicates he was addressing anyone else other than me. But it's your story so, tell it as you please.

Blogger Markku March 18, 2017 4:18 PM  

There is nothing in his response that indicates he was addressing anyone else other than me.

That's how he does it. Trust me, I'm a moderator.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 4:33 PM  

Don't be any dumber than you must, please.

CONTROL-FIND "making this up"

Then you can apologize to Vox and me.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 18, 2017 4:35 PM  

120. Dwain Dibley
Blah, blah, blah, blabbity blah blah.
Another friggin' genius, how damn lucky can we get ?

Anonymous VFM #6306 March 18, 2017 4:39 PM  

Dwain, re-read the thread. It will become obvious that you made a mistake.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 4:39 PM  

Dwain: Yes, I said as much. IF you stay with the Fed, all you can do is "extend and pretend". Vox' advice is probably as good as it could get IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

Or you can crash the system and start over. Unless you've been eaten by the cannibals.

But please, you've stoked my curiousity. Do illuminate us with your particular brand of splendorific brilliance on what you would do were you crowned King of the USA tomorrow and could remake the entire monetary system.

Anonymous Human G. Hormone March 18, 2017 4:40 PM  

Seriously?? Dweeb Dwain Dibley swears up and down Vox copied this post to reply to him:

Howard J. Harrison wrote:Vox: You're just making this up as you go along.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 18, 2017 4:51 PM  

Gamma fight! It's like midget wrestling, only more boring.

Anonymous Grayman March 18, 2017 4:54 PM  

Now midget tossing...... that was one of the best bachelor party events EVER!

Anonymous Eduardo March 18, 2017 4:56 PM  

Does it happen to be any... pictures XD Of that midget tossing event?

Blogger Dwain Dibley March 18, 2017 5:07 PM  

@122. Michael Maier

Sorry about triggering you, new knowledge sometimes has that affect on people.

@125. Michael Maier
Well according to most 'experts' a crash of the current system is inevitable, I'm just pointing out the nature of the crash and why. The industries will still be there, the labor will still be there, the goods will still be there, the food will still be there, everything that comprises a functioning economy will still be there except for one thing.....MONEY to run it. And that's because we are not currently using money, we're using bankster generated debt-based private credit, which can !POOF! out of existence almost instantly, and there isn't enough money in circulation to keep the economy going. That's the crash.

@124. VFM #6306
@126. Human G. Hormone
I really don't care, move along.....

@123. jOHN MOSBY
Very lucky, you should pay attention and extrapolate the implications.

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 5:14 PM  

Dwain.... You are a stupid tit and a waste of time.

1: You cannot follow very, very simple instruction I provided that would illustrate your error. Pressing CONTROL-F is a new, difficult skill to learn, I suppose.

2: you are actually delusional enough to you think you're educating Vox OR me about what happens in a crash? OR the nature of USA's currency?

I'm not sure which makes you dummer (and "sic", since you are so dense).

Blogger Michael Maier March 18, 2017 5:18 PM  

Vox, I apologize and thank you. I have been thinking "Man, Vox is brutally short with people anymore". And I don't endure nearly the volume of stupidity that you do.

I hate that I have to keep re-learning that lesson.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 18, 2017 5:22 PM  

130. Dwain Dibley
Watch out, you might get Finn'd.

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 5:27 PM  

I have been thinking "Man, Vox is brutally short with people anymore". And I don't endure nearly the volume of stupidity that you do.

I have a lifetime of experience in dealing with relative retards, so I have no problem whatsoever understanding why the global elite are so tempted to depopulate the planet.

This is why Christianity and philosophy are crucial. They keep the highly intelligent from exterminating all the morons who can't figure out that two plus two still equals four.

It's one thing to reach incorrect conclusions because you're misled or maleducated. It's another to cling to observably false narratives in the face of the facts... and tell your intellectual superiors that they're wrong.

Blogger VD March 18, 2017 5:31 PM  

That's enough, Dwain. Just shut up now.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 18, 2017 5:38 PM  

Has nobody else noticed that Howard is Art Deco?

And he lied about it in his first sentence?

Check the cadence, the word choice, the tone, it's the same "guy".

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable March 18, 2017 6:06 PM  

Howard J. Harrison wrote:I don't know who Art Deco is

Interesting guy, comes across as a late-Silent research librarian in New York. Has leftist tendencies while also being redpilled on feminism and tending to focus on facts, but his expertise has its limits such as not science.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable March 18, 2017 6:22 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:SciVo, you're misquoting Say's Law in the modern way. Supply doesn’t create demand.

In order to consume, you must first produce (something that can be sold for more than the sum of its inputs.)

Getting this statement wrong is the foundation of every macroeconomic idiocy to come down the pike.


Dammit, you are absolutely correct, and I think it was our dread host that corrected me last time. I hate commitment tendency and it's real.

I guess the best I can hope for is that I disqualified them on their own terms.

Blogger tz March 18, 2017 7:31 PM  

Socialism is a high-functioning cargo cult. The USSR had people look at Pittsburgh and created the Lenin Steel Works, which didn't quite work right, but functioned because they could copy the details. They missed that Pittsburgh was organic created by market forces, so they could only imitate from a static photograph (I forgot which military plane was cloned to the last detail).

Asia suffers from a similar problem. The Japanese came here with their cameras and copied everything. But they can't innovate, so when China copied their copy - more cheaply - they were stranded. I know they have the Deming prize and aren't quite as bad, but "creative destruction" can only happen in a high trust, full capitalist structure like the USA. The Kieretsu will resist destruction, and creation will be stunted.

Keynes assumed because you saw something function, that you could simply copy the results without trying to understand the complexity of the system that created it - and markets are too complex for even computers or AI - they won't be able to predict the weather any better because of mathematical chaos.

The west harnessed avarice and chaos, like man harnessed fire. I'd add harnessed government, at least at the start. European history is about bridling and breaking wild and even evil forces so their energies could be used for good.

Anonymous Deplorable Winning March 19, 2017 12:39 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Has nobody else noticed that Howard is Art Deco?

And he lied about it in his first sentence?

Check the cadence, the word choice, the tone, it's the same "guy".


For the record that does indeed seem to be the case, to be fair.

Blogger Gary March 19, 2017 8:39 AM  

@grayman,

There will be no collapse, as the next system is sat ready to go, trade will be conducted in euros predominantly, also bilaterally using national currencies.

The ECB will launch a QE into physical gold, that will be the trigger. The Saudis, China, Russia and others will sell, and off we go. The US will be left to wither as its deficits take it down. Eventually it will hyperinflate, then it can blame the Fed, ditch the Fed, and mobilise its deep storage gold behind a new US currency.

There's decades of work gone into the preparations for this, so I don't expect any collapse. I'm looking for Euro bank failures to be the first sign that we are off to the races.

The new set up won't appear to be globalist, and in fact will appear to be nationalist, but all under the umbrella of an enlightened new world order, where wars are never needed again. Quasi global totalitarianism is what it will be, with no way out.


Then we get the insurgencies, and their reaction. I don't know how it all ends, but suspect Jehovah will be the one who puts a stop to it, as *it* will be Satan's triumph.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 19, 2017 8:53 AM  

To take it 1 step further, money is the symbol of work. Its not a perfect money = work equation but any system that bases itself on that theory is still going to work pretty well.

Blogger Resident Moron™ March 19, 2017 9:05 AM  

As plausible a scenario as any I've seen ...

Blogger Tom Kratman March 19, 2017 2:04 PM  

To be more precise, the pols didn't want to spend money, per se; they wanted to buy votes and get a rake off.

Blogger bruce March 20, 2017 1:47 AM  

There are lots of reasons to slam Keynes, but he wasn't dumb. He was the best polemic writer out of Bloomsbury, and the best numerate polemicist of the twentieth century. His Economic Consequences of the Peace should be read with Assize at Arms and The Economic Consequences of Mr Keynes, but Keynes' book is still the best description of the Armistice negotiation. He wrote excellent biographic essays on five or six top economists from the preceding generation. His essay on Newton brought out the alchemy stuff for the first time in centuries. He always put the case for his group in the British Treasury, which was usually the group running the British Treasury from 1905-45.

It's bad luck to call your smart enemies dumb.

Blogger Some Dude March 20, 2017 4:49 AM  

Voxxy until tge eco and genetic populist strands are united youre going to keep shooting yourself in the foot toeing the heritage line about redistrubution.

Its called National SOCIALISM for a reason. Not the one the jew goldberg mc open borders wants you to know.

Im not a conservative. A conservative of what - monarchy, roman gods, banning of non property owners from higher education?

Its a label voxxy not logic. Verstanden?

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 20, 2017 3:09 PM  

@tz
"The USSR had people look at Pittsburgh and created the Lenin Steel Works"

Might want to read Anthony Sutton, or "Red Carpet," as to how much of that "copying" was actually carried out by Western corporations/ governments, rather than the commies themselves.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 20, 2017 3:21 PM  

@bruce
"There are lots of reasons to slam Keynes, but he wasn't dumb."

Beat me to it. Give the devil his due. He may have been a homosexual pedophile with a BS economic theory, but he was right about the Treaty of Versailles.

"It's bad luck to call your smart enemies dumb."

As one great American said to another (Forrestal to McCarthy), in a little different context, "Consistency has never been a hallmark of stupidity. If the diplomats who have mishandled our relations with Russia were merely stupid, they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor."

Blogger Jaycephus March 22, 2017 2:03 PM  

"In the long run, we're all dead." - J. M. Keynes

Well, Keynes is dead, but we're all still here, experiencing the 'long run'. Our children are going to really experience the full brunt of it. Thank you, Keynes.

The quote was the concession of a deeply intellectually-dishonest person. His modern-day incarnation in this and other senses, is Paul Krugman. They both were certainly smart and intellectually-capable men, but neither have or had a serious commitment to truth over ideology.

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